Catching Up with Clarence Pope

Raised by his great grandparents in Athens, Georgia, Clarence Pope was first part of the total integration process of the city’s high schools, followed by being part of the first group of black players granted scholarships by the Georgia football program. Signing with Georgia 50 years ago in December of 1970, Pope instantly became one of the program’s “Five Pioneers,” along with Horace King and Richard Appleby, each also from Athens, Chuck Kinnebrew (Rome, Ga.), and Larry West (Albany, Ga.).

UGASports recently caught up with Pope from his home in Athens, where, among other things, he is a minister and a great-grandparent.

UGASports: Clarence, you are widely recognized as one of the first five black football players at Georgia who played on scholarship. Yet, just the year before, you also had been part of the total integration process of the Athens high schools. Please explain further.

Pope: “At one time, Burney-Harris was the high school for black students; Athens High School for white students. The integration process started in 1968 or 1969, so it was maybe a year or two before total integration of the high schools to form Clarke Central. After playing against just black schools, Burney-Harris joined the GHSA in 1968—and we knew we were good football players enjoying the game and competition. As black players, we were excited because of the idea that we could compete just as well against the white teams because, at the time, black teams were always thought to be inferior.”

UGASports: Seriously, why is that? Why were black players thought to be inferior at the time?

Pope: “Culture is maybe the best way to describe it. At the time, young black youth were assumably inferior in not only education but also athletics—and that was mostly due to beliefs that black teams had inferior coaches. For example, black coaches were thought of as not teaching proper on-field techniques when compared to white coaches. When Burney-Harris was brought into the GHSA, we even saw newspaper clippings putting down techniques taught by black coaches, how black players were not properly coached, so to speak, as the white teams, etc. The year before total integration, Athens High had won the state co-championship by tying Valdosta [in 1969]. Entering the next season, there was even talk in the newspaper about how very few of the black players from Burney-Harris would contribute to this team [integrated Clarke Central] which had just shared the state title. I recall it saying that guys like Horace [King] and Richard [Appleby] would definitely play, but it was basically stated that the rest of the black players weren’t good enough. Once we got there [to Clarke Central], we discovered that there was a true racist ideology.”

UGASports: Can you explain further?

Pope: “Well, let me first say that I don’t want to talk negative about anybody, but I do prefer to tell the truth because the truth matters. And my truth is my experience, and not what I simply heard. Beginning at practice prepping for the 1970 season at Clarke Central, it was clear that not only were black players considered inferior but there was favoritism towards players whose parents were influential in the community, whereas players from parents just trying to make it weren’t catered to at all. Many of us experienced both separatism and favoritism—something no player should experience.”

UGASports: Were you recruited by other schools to attend school and play football? And, ultimately, why did you decide on Georgia?

Pope: “By my junior year, I had some smaller programs that expressed interest, like HBCU (historically black colleges and universities) schools. Sure, I wanted to play football at the next level, but it wasn’t anything I dwelled on. During my senior year, Georgia started coming around, but it wasn’t so much they were interested in me but, rather, they really wanted Horace and Richard. But, I did have some talent as a linebacker and blocking back, so the three of us eventually just became a ‘package deal’ for Georgia to sign. We had a teacher at Clarke Central, Dr. Walter Allen, who acted as a liaison of sorts with UGA’s athletic program. Dr. Allen essentially said to Georgia, ‘You want those two (King and Appleby), how about Pope too?’ Dr. Allen had lots of connections at UGA. In fact, when I was still in high school, he would take me up to UGA and we’d speak with professors. Since I had pretty good grades, the idea was that if I didn’t get a football scholarship to Georgia, perhaps I could get an academic scholarship—and Dr. Allen was going to help me with that.”

UGASports: Entering Georgia in the fall of 1971, there were essentially four of you since Appleby had an issue with his grades. How did you, West, King, and Kinnebrew become acclimated with your new surroundings?

Pope: “Early on, we sat down with Coach Dooley on multiple occasions because I really think he wanted to make sure that we, well, succeeded. He cared enough to come talk to us, asking what was going on, if all things were in order, and things of that nature. He asked us who we wanted to live with—together or amongst our white teammates. We told him that we preferred to room together, so they put us in a four-room suite at McWhorter Hall (the athletic dorm). The four of us were a community. We were able to sit down with each other and discover exactly why the four of us were there. Whatever that had gone on during a particular day, we’d come back to our suite and share it with each other, so, individually, we’d have a grasp on those experiences and how to handle the circumstances.”

UGASports: For the five of you, how did you successfully transition into a newly-integrated football program—one in which hadn’t even played opposite a team with a black player until just 20 years before (vs. St. Mary’s in 1950 was the first time Georgia faced an opponent featuring a black player)?

Pope: “In our lives, it wasn’t like we didn’t understand going from segregation to integration—we lived with that. I know that for the five of us upon entering Georgia, it wasn’t like, ‘Whoa, this is something new!’ We were aware that no matter where we went, we were going to have to deal with people—all kinds of people. We had good parents who taught us good morals, like to not be hateful and if hate was directed at us to not retaliate with hate. The five of us were recruited to Georgia not only because of our athletic ability, but the characters of all five of us were important to UGA. Once arriving to UGA, we were thrust into an area where we still dealt with people—and I believe our transition was successful because we didn’t carry chips on our shoulders.”

UGASports: There are multiple reports out there of what you guys experienced when stepping on campus, including an annual hazing ritual whereby some upperclassmen dressed up in Ku Klux Klan attire. How could you not carry a chip on your shoulder?

Pope: “As far as the KKK thing, in our mindset, it was definitely degrading; however, we knew that the people up under there (KKK hoods) didn’t know us. They were just performing as they had always performed. We recognized as we began to practice together and play together with white players that there were some of them who had never even been around blacks before. But, in time, some of them began to see us individually as not only a football player, but as a person. From there, some of them became good friends, or at least good teammates.”

UGASports: Take us through your UGA varsity career after starting at linebacker on the 1971 freshman squad, including what would seem like a discouraging fourth year in 1974.

Pope: “After my freshman year, I got hurt and was redshirted and on the scout team in 1972. In 1973, I competed for and got a starting job at linebacker. I started for a few games before Sylvester Boler, who was coming off an injury and a great football player, took my spot. I honestly didn’t have any qualms with the team putting Sylvester over me because I knew he was a better player than I was. I was on the team in ’74 but I didn’t play much. It was rather disheartening. Finally, towards the end of that season—I think it might have been the Florida game—I was told I would start. But, I not only didn’t start, but I didn’t even get on the field. I was flabbergasted.

UGASports: How did you react to not starting/playing when you had been told you would do so?

Pope: “We got back that Sunday, and I went home instead of to the dorm, thinking I was through with football. It was hard getting over being told I would start, but I didn’t even play—and no one ever told me why not. I missed film review that day and I soon got a call from someone saying Coach Dooley wanted to talk to me. I got back on campus and met with Coach Dooley, and he said that he was the head coach, and sometimes the coaching staff made decisions that might not get delivered to the player(s). He then said something—and this ‘life lesson’ really stuck with me—about how there’d be many things in life which don’t go as you hoped. However, you can’t give up just because something doesn’t go the way you want it to go.”

UGASports: That must have been a difficult time for you, especially considering you had begun the season before as a starter.

Pope: “Yeah, after returning to the team in ’74, I didn’t play much the rest of the year. My grades were failing, as well, so I experienced some depression. Also, a tough thing on me at the time was I really didn’t have any family who was able to come to the games and visit afterward. When family members would visit players, it was really a great moment, like a celebration, after a win—and, even if you lost, family members could bring your spirits back up. After games, while most everyone else was out celebrating with family, I would usually find myself in the dorm shooting pool by myself, just to fill the void. That became depressing. I will say, Chuck [Kinnebrew] and his family started to ask me if I wanted to go out with them. The Kinnebrew family really came by my side and encouraged me—and that was a blessing. Still, and I realize other players have had similar issues, I started to see Saturdays instead of being joyful, as being lonely for me. And, when I became a loner in 1974, I also stopped going to class.”

UGASports: What happened from there?

Pope: “I found out I wasn’t going back to school because my grades weren’t up to par. I went back home and found a little work here and there. But, in life, sometimes it takes a little while to find your niche. In 1975, I actually went back to school on a student loan. For nearly a year, I took a couple of classes during the day, and then would work at a textile mill in town, Chicopee, at night from about 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. In 1976, I got on with the fire department here. I worked there for 37 years before retiring five or so years ago.”

UGASports: Tell us about your family.

Pope: “The same year I started with the fire department, I met my wife, Peggy. We have a daughter, Tina, and she and her husband have two children. Both of my two grandchildren are married, and they have children. So, I have three great-grandchildren. And everyone is local, including me. I have never left Athens. So, we’re all together as a family and have the best time with one another. It’s a blessing.”

UGASports: What have you been up to since retiring from the fire department?

Pope: “I’m the Associate Pastor at New Freedom Christian Center (Athens) where I oversee a particular group, the Overcomers. Ever since I started my ministry in 1997, I’ve been an advocate for those individuals seeking help to right themselves in the area of addiction and things of that nature.”

UGASports: For obvious reasons, you routinely associate with the Bulldog football program. Go into some detail regarding your association with UGA.

Pope: “Well, each year the lettermen are given an opportunity to come together and tailgate for a game. And, after spring practice each year, I try to attend the award ceremony the program has at the Athens Country Club. This year during February right before COVID hit, Kinnebrew, Horace, West, and myself—Richard (who lives in Hawaii) couldn’t make it—spoke to the team. We visited with Kirby [Smart] and the staff. We also attended the Mary Frances Early College of Education naming ceremony (Mary Frances Early was the first black student to earn a degree from UGA). It was great—a full day.”

UGASports: How was the interaction between you four former players and the current Georgia football team?

Pope: “You know how young people can sometimes be, idolizing themselves more so than anyone else. I was thinking, I know these young fellows don’t want to sit here and listen to a bunch of old fogies. But, when we had the opportunity to speak to the team in a room at the Butts-Mehre Building—a really beautiful setting—man, we could tell that these guys were literally on the edges of their seats. They really gave us the ultimate respect of listening. At a dinner with them that evening, each one of us sat at a table with 7-8 players. We then spoke as a group to the team. The connection made there was unbelievable. The players were coming up to us and asking questions—and absolutely interested in not only what we did from a historical standpoint, but interested in what we were doing now—and they wanted advice on what type of transition did they need to make after UGA. It was really heart-warming to share our experiences and our hope. Our hope was that the players took something from there that could be a positive aspect of their life, and continued to grow as a man, while giving back to other youth.”

UGASports: What is your hope for today’s youth?

Pope: “Because of the experiences I’ve had the opportunity to have, I believe the youth today is going through their own experiences. I believe the youth need people in their lives—and even beyond their own parents—who have truly experienced life. The youth need to be able to open up to these people and ask them questions. This way, they’ll more so understand their roadmap of life, and be able to navigate it in such a way to reach their final destiny.”